[youtube]http://youtu.be/2uEXkmMealE[/youtube]

Video emerged yesterday of Alabama blogger Michael Vanderboegh calling for “civil war on a vast scale” at a rally on Cliven Bundy’s ranch. So-called ‘Patriot’ militias and ‘sovereign citizens’ have flocked to the scene in recent weeks to support the freeloading cattleman’s bid to keep his cows grazing on public lands without paying the requisite fees. Vanderboegh has been calling for violent insurrection against the tyrannical government of his imagination for years, but he approves of his fellow ‘patriots’ setting up checkpoints around Bunkerville, Nevada to stop drivers and demand to see their papers. Apparently, actual tyranny is totally patriotic as long as it is carried out by an armed mob.

Cognitive dissonance is nothing new with Vanderboegh. Although he is personally dependent on Social Security disability payments, for example, Vanderboegh has become one of America’s most consequential anti-government cranks. He seems to have joined the militia movement after the Branch Davidian disaster in 1993, but he did not achieve prominence until 2010, when readers answered his call to revolt against the impending passage of health care reform by breaking the windows of Democratic Party offices around the country. To Vanderboegh, laws that prevent insurance companies from canceling your policy when you get sick are ‘tyranny,’ while brick-throwing mobs ranting about crackpot conspiracy theories are ‘patriots.’

After the ACA passed, Vanderboegh spent the ensuing two years concocting a scandal called ‘Fast and Furious’ from the self-serving fabrications of a disgruntled ATF agent. (In fact, Vanderboegh’s source was the only federal official who actually allowed any guns to ‘walk.’) But just as Cliven Bundy managed to attract the support of Republican politicians and conservative media prior to his disastrous remarks about slavery, Vanderboegh was able to convince Republican members of Congress to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over his lunatic conspiracy theory, and was presented by Fox News as an authority on the scandal he had contrived.

While Vanderboegh and his “Three Percenters” movement have become very popular on the fringe right, especially at Breitbart.com, will his clarion call to mass violence have the same scattering effect as Bundy’s remarks about slavery? That remains to be seen, and rest assured we will stay on top of the story.

  • I have the entire speech on my blog, and not once did Mike Vanderboegh call for civil war.

    http://americandictators.blogspot.com/2014/04/mike-vanderboeghs-speech-at-bunkerville.html

    Of course, who needs the facts when you’re writing for liberals.

    • Hofenbrau

      You must be joking. Who needs facts when obscurity is how these lunatics speak to the world? Staring at full scale civil war means what exactly?

      ““All over this country, we are still staring civil war in its bloody face,”

      And who would be staring at civil war if it wasn’t for this lunatic fringe militia movement who thinks that their whiteness is being overrun by globalization? What kind of civil war do you want? I know normal every day citizens go about their daily lives without a need to think that civil war is all that is left. All I see are a bunch of arm chair gun toting wannabes who want to relive or even live their Red Dawn fantasy world and are looking for any match that will light the fire or tree of liberty lol.

      “He claimed that Sen. Harry Reid, who has criticized the Bundy ranch militias, “is promising us all civil war on a vast scale, because state-sponsored violence is they only way they can win an argument with free people, especially free people who are armed and who are willing to use those arms in defense of liberty.”

      So in other words those who defend Bundy and his money making scams are somehow defending liberty and ready to go full scale war with a government that could wipe them away in about 3 seconds flat? I mean most of these Red Dawn wannabes would piss their pants at the first sight of a tank or APC and throw their woman out front to take the heat while they decamped and headed for freedom down the road. Hilarious wannabe arm chair pussies talking shit while carrying a gun with 6 bullets in it strapped to the side cowboy style. Its stupid nonsense made to order, or maybe they want their own reality TV series? I can see it now: OATHKEEPERS at 9 pm followed by ARM CHAIR PUSSIES at 10. Bravo TV would eat you guys up. Maybe that’s what its all about, just a bunch of idiots who think they are at war, when in reality they are the comedy that everyone else laughs at. Sorry to be harsh and all, but please, get real. Civil war? You guys would be mowed down in about 3 seconds and whoever was left would be shitting their pants begging for a better place to be after the first strike.

      • Oh, this is a comedy. I didn’t realize this site was something like the Onion, only without humor. Well keep it up, I’m sure Chevy Chase didn’t get his routine down in a day either.

        Only in your world is “staring civil war in its bloody face” the same as “calling for civil war.”

        • hofenbrau

          I’m sure this site would beg for traffic like the Onion has lol. Standing up on podiums with a bunch of gun toting militia men acting out a Red Dawn fantasy and talking about civil war is the same as calling for it. They are inciting gun toting people into the idea that all that is left is civil war with a government that more often than not supports them financially. It isn’t like you are saying that its time to get out the voters and call for legislation to be changed favoring land use rights. It is however going to the extreme by saying that Civil war is all that is left on the horizon. Its a call to action couched in terms that won’t get you arrested, but says the same thing that you really want people to get behind. Do you see Joe Average leaving his home behind and heading out to the desert with his guns and backpacks dreaming of living off the land? No. Joe Average is out working his butt off at a job to feed his family and pay his bills like any other citizen who is a part of normal society. They are not out calling for or discussing civil war out in the desert while living off of government disability/crazy checks. Joe Average is out working day to day looking towards the weekend where he mows the lawn, buys groceries for the week ahead, and trying to find time to spend with his family by going out to the movies or buying some new gadget or relaxing by the grill thinking about the American Dream.

        • BumpIt McCarthy

          Right, and after the South fired on Fort Sumter, they referred to the ensuing conflict as “The War Of Northern Aggression.”

          Threatening that civil war will commence because a millionaire moocher doesn’t want to pay for grazing thousands of head of cattle on land that isn’t his is of course calling for civil war.

          The Militia/Sovereign Citizen/Redemption Movement expects that every sentence uttered by itself is True, even when ridiculously contradictory, such as “Staring bloody civil war in the face” being a thrilling, sexy, threat against the Feds, but it isn’t “calling for civil war.” Assertion does not equal truth.

          Also, it’s wonderful how conspiracy theorists always “discover” that they DON’T have to do something they don’t want to do. Their “research” never turns up anything that isn’t miraculously convenient, such as the discovery that perhaps they ought to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.

      • aceofwands

        “…liberty and ready to go full scale war with a government that could wipe them away in about 3 seconds flat?”

        Your above statement is interlaced with liberal wet dream thinking and is
        devoid of an understanding for basic mathematics, as this author so
        logically describes. Because this article was written exactly one year
        ago, it demonstrates how far behind the curve you and your leftie
        minions truly are.

        “Anti-gunners may think the military could prevent such a thing —
        an argument often used against us pro-gunners — but with only a few
        million people in the military, and with the United States containing
        300 million citizens spread across nearly four million square miles,
        many of whom are themselves veterans, well, military occupation of this
        country is impossible. It doesn’t help that most street cops (opposed to
        their politician bosses) are pro-gun, too. And what happens when the
        civilian industries that support the military stop producing the
        supplies our military needs?”

        http:// http://www.iowastatedaily.com/ opinion/article_1c144792-b36d-11e2-8ac6-001a4bcf887a.html

        Your next mistake is to assume the war will be against the government, when
        in reality it will be against those who wish to take America into a full
        blown Communist state with a dash of Fascism tossed in just for sh!ts
        and giggles. The comments found after viewing the movie in this blog
        post reveal who the enemy really is and it won’t be the government.

        Found in comments…

        http ://iowntheworld. com/blog/?p=221894

        unneutral asks…

        “What about the horrors that historians are gonna see when they review the actions of the obama administration??”

        • Question 1: where the hell were you people when the banks were foreclosing on everyone’s house a few years ago? Question 2: where the hell are you people NOW while non-government entities are using eminent domain to build the Keystone pipeline on land that actually belongs to actual private citizens?

          Your comments make it clear that you fantasize about war with the government and all this kook stuff is just rationalization for your sick desire to fulfill that fantasy.

          • aceofwands

            Q 1:

            The genesis for the collapse started in 1994 and by 1999 the NYT
            was issuing warnings of an impending collapse. This is when Obama and
            his law firm decided to sue Citibank in Chicago, forcing loans for
            people who on any given day would require a cosigner to buy a newspaper.
            In 1995 Bill Clinton thought it such a good idea, he lowered the
            standards even further.

            http://www.obamafordummies.com/sub-prime-mortgages.html

            ”From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift
            industry growing up around us,” said Peter Wallison a resident fellow
            at the American Enterprise Institute. ”If they fail, the government
            will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed
            out the thrift industry.”

            http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html

            http://www.thehispanicconservative.com/General/the-fanny-mae-and-freddie-mac-debacle.html

            “(BTW:
            Bush asked Congress 17 times to stop Fannie & Freddie -starting in
            2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy).Barney blocked
            it and called it a “Chicken Little Philosophy” (and the sky did fall!)”

            http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=77592

            Q 2:
            Considering it is still in court and no decision has been reached and Obama has further delayed it, your question is moot at this time.

          • aceofwands

            “Your comments make it clear that you fantasize about war with the
            government and all this kook stuff is just rationalization for your sick
            desire to fulfill that fantasy.”

            Introduce yourself to what the left really is.

            Found in comments…

            “The left is running scared because their best effort to take over
            America is being resisted. This makes the left dangerous in the sense,
            the more desperate they become, the more they will think the only
            solution is to adopt the Bill Ayers plan for genocide of 25 or 30
            million people. At this point you need to ask the question…does
            America really need a domestic security force as well equipped as the US
            Military? Why? For what reason does the left need such a force? The
            answer…because Bill Ayers and his ilk (Obama being one of them) think
            now is their chance to implement the 100 year progressive plan to take
            over America. Their guy is in office and their sycophants are ready to
            hit the street. Van Jones: “bottom up, top down”…this must be code for
            the civilian security force to come down on the middle class while the
            free stuff crowd assaults them from the bottom, putting the squeeze on
            them to capitulate. Observant people would call this…”the writing on
            the wall”. Obama better be very careful what he wishes for, it may just
            backfire on him resulting in an extinction event for his sycophants,
            minions and enablers.

            Their naïveté of human nature and the historical record will not serve them well in the future. There is a paradigm shift taking place in America…the left has exposed themselves for who they really are and America does not like it. They can believe
            or disbelieve whatever they like, but the shift is taking place and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The mass murderers of history are the icons of the left…Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Che. These historical hero’s of the left have one thing in common… “These bad boys and girls throughout history have an ultimate drug of choice: Genocide.” It fits right in with that iconic left winger Margret Sanger,
            that eugenics expert so famous for the creation of Planned Parenthood.
            It also fits in with the writings of John Holdren and Paul Ehrlich, the
            Obama minions responsible for selling the environmental movement on the
            idea, less people is a good thing for the environment. Of course the
            mush brained lib’s will, and have interpreted this to mean, “KILL! KILL!
            KILL!. With over 50 million dead in just 40 years because of left wing
            ideology (Roe v. Wade) and more on the way if Holdren and Ehrlich get
            their way must make the left so proud, or they are hypocrites of
            biblical proportion…for the left only embraces killing when the left
            agrees with it and show indignation when the roles are suddenly reversed
            and the left becomes the target. Add to this the Cloward/Piven plan for
            economic collapse along with Ayo Kimathi, Jose Angel Gutierrez and King
            Salim Shabazz calling for the genocide of whites, and I can only see
            their destruction as what the future holds. It is for this reason apathy
            for the left is a growing movement which is becoming evident in every
            comment section from coast to coast. They can disbelieve this if they
            like…their choice…but it is happening. Perhaps they have not been
            paying proper attention. or perhaps they have been securely wrapped in
            the warmth of the liberal Kool-Aide they drink daily, I don’t care one
            way or the other. Human nature will always supersede a failed political
            ideology when survival is in play.

            Extirpating the left can be accomplished in a day or two, something their “new math” fails to teach.”

            http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.mx/2014/05/more-collectivist-comment-on-my-speech.html

          • “Extirpating”? As in “final solution for the liberal problem”? Thank you for proving that everything I just said about you and your power-mad FREAK of a leader is true.

          • aceofwands

            All you have proven is the statement…”for the left only embraces
            killing when the left
            agrees with it and show indignation when the roles are suddenly reversed
            and the left becomes the target.” Anita Dunn certainly shows little
            embarrassment by selecting a murderous Communist responsible for 70
            million deaths as her inspirational and philosophical guiding light in
            how one should approach life. And Obama appointed her as White House
            Communications Director…brilliant. Your very own elected president
            embraced the murder of Mexican nationals by supplying weapons to
            murderous entities south of the border, all to create a talking point in
            the hopes of getting gun control implemented…and the left cheered.
            Facebook lefties are filling their pages with calls for drone strikes to
            murder the cowboys in Nevada…and the left cheers. And now you have
            the gall to deem yourself as some self appointed and self righteous
            defender of what exactly?…your version of what civility is supposed to
            be, when your side embraces murder to send a message. It has been your
            side grooming America for the current state the left finds itself in.
            Perhaps you should not have sent out your “Black Block” barbarians to
            demonstrate how easily it is to destroy property for the sole purpose of
            sending the message of “don’t fvck with us”. Or perhaps Trumka should
            not have permitted Eddie York to be shot in the back of the head by his
            rank and file. Yeah, right, you actually fall right in with this crowd
            of stellar examples for left wing ideology and actually embrace their
            message, but now you and your ilk are being called out for what you
            actually are and you don’t like.

            OH! btw, the general disagrees with you…see #4.
            http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/

            “Homeland Security’ Employee Preparing For Coming Race War, Advocates Mass Murder Of Whites

            http://patdollard.com/2013/08/homeland-security-employee-preparing-for-coming-race-war-advocates-mass-murder-of-whites/

            WATCH – Democrat Icon/MSM Hero/La Raza Founder: ‘We Have Got To Eliminate The White Man. We Have Got To Kill Him’

            http://patdollard.com/2014/04/watch-democrat-iconmsm-herola-raza-founder-we-have-got-to-eliminate-the-white-man-we-have-got-to-kill-him/

            “The tattoo on his face says, “Kill Whitey” in block letters,”

            http://nypost.com/2013/06/22/kill-whitey-panther-is-held-on-gun-rap/

            National Geographic “Inside The New Black Panthers”

            Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEIsreNjN1E

            Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlwCHb5Kk_E

            Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnvEreoiEIw
            Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuwyBGaIIVw

          • Sooo you have demonstrated, again, that everything just said about you is true.

          • aceofwands

            Deflect much? Afraid to defend example after example of murderous
            left wing historical and present day actions and desires for more
            murder? I thought so.

            Just goes to show it is true…facts cause the liberal mind to go into short circuit mode. It
            causes tunnel vision so they can only see their selfish goals as the all important “by any means necessary” is utilized to get what they want…deflect, usurp, lie, hide, deny, cheat, steal and kill.

          • I have been very active against these banks and corporations and have written extensively about them on my blog, written my senators and congressmen, been politically active in the primaries as a delegate, voted and still got stuck with the same shit. I have tried relentlessly to educate “conservatives” about the theft by Transcanada stealing people’s property and the violation of property rights by this foreign corporation. See my article on Ted Cruz:

            http://americandictators.blogspot.com/2013/07/ted-cruz-declares-war-on-america.html

            The Bundy’s situation is also a violation of their grazing and property rights, this time by our fascist government. Don’t conflate the freedom movement with the neocons or “right wing.” We just want the government to stop infringing on our natural rights, and to leave us the hell alone.

            http://americandictators.blogspot.com/

          • Hofenbrau

            We just want the government to stop infringing on our natural rights, and to leave us the hell alone.

            Then will you stop calling for civil war if you are suddenly left alone? Or will you keep going to other states looking for a fight on some other issue?

          • If the feral government is infringing on people’s rights in other states, we know that our state will be next. We will stop when they stop.

          • How in the world was the BLM infringing on Bundy’s “natural rights”? Is that how you invent his permission to graze cattle on public lands at vastly reduced cost compared to private land? The whole grazing fee system is a *subsidy* for ranchers, not a tax.

          • Bundy’s grazing rights pre-existed the BLM, further the BLM stole and killed his cattle, and damaged his water system. Even if the property had been purchased by a private individual, the grazing rights would still be owned by Bundy, just as if you purchased property but someone else owned the mineral rights. The BLM’s “grazing fee” was not a subsidy, but a tax used to remove the ranchers.

          • tomenokr

            Exactly HOW MUCH money does it cost you to let cows eat free weeds on OUR public lands?

            These aren’t government lands, dopey. They’re ours. And are YOU busy using a remote piece of land that nobody else uses or wants?

            Allowing grazing on public lands should be FREE because it keeps the cost of food down, maintains otherwise unused and untended land, reduces the risks of brush fires that would otherwise ensue, and makes the ground more fertile.

            Your problem is that you blindly accept the belief that the government has the right to tax anything they want. Taxing the air you breath is next. Think that’s just another whacko conspiracy theory? It’s already here. It’s called a carbon tax. Being taxed to exist.

            Unless you’re planning on picnicking on this weed-encrusted piece of dirt, exactly how are these cows bothering you to the point of bringing out the snipers.

          • Sooo they are public lands, but the government doesn’t get to manage them because Bundy does, because they’re really his lands? Except they’re not his. He hasn’t shown ONE document to back this claim.

            You demonstrate zero understanding of how grazing fees work. If Bundy grazed those cows on private property, he would expect to pay several times the price per head. The whole point of the extra-low fees is that they provide a subsidy to ranchers. You also don’t seem to understand that CAFOs, and not some imaginary gummint regulation beast, are responsible for putting ranchers out of business. That’s your “free markets” at work. And you know who I don’t see taking up arms against the government? OTHER RANCHERS.

            Governments actually DO have the right to tax anything they want. That’s actually how governments work, and one of the primary characteristics of civilization is governments collecting taxes. No one is going to tax your air, and that’s not how a carbon tax works. Just because you say the moon is made of green cheese does not make it true.

          • tomenokr

            “Governments actually DO have the right to tax anything they want.”

            You’ve officially vacated reality.

            Further, regarding grazing rights, you really should educate yourself. Public school system? It shows.

            Finally, subprime was NOT the result of deregulation. It was the result of over regulation. This is my industry. And my expertise. Financial institutions were REQUIRED to write these NINJA loans. They didn’t pull diminished requirements out of their pie hole. They were imposed on them.

            And more finally, carbon tax is exactly a tax for existing. Read what’s happening. Taxes are being proposed for every carbon based creature that you own, including yourself. It’s not just a tax on polluters, cars and industry. It’s also a personal tax on the your own excretion. Which in some peoples case, is a lot more than others.

            Arguing with a liberal is exacerbating. They don’t understand the realities of the messes they get everyone into.

          • tomenokr

            Further, your comments suggest you don’t really understand how grazing rights work. The government steps in, takes what’s yours already, and sells it back to you at an escalated and inflated pace. That’s why 26 other ranchers that used to graze there are out of business.

            As for the subprime mess, thank your fat friend Barney Frank for that mess. That man should be jailed for his subprime debacle. And you’re making this a leftist argument?? Typical liberal.

          • The subprime debacle was the result of a deregulated mortgage market. You can’t buy a toaster with a one in five chance of exploding, but you can buy a mortgage with the same chance of blowing up under you. Blaming it all on Barney Frank is like blaming Yoko Ono for the White Album: that’s not how it works.

    • Right, and telling people to break windows isn’t actually trying to start that civil war. SNORT

    • soljerblue

      Facts to a libtard are as rare as unicorns to the rational.

      • “Libtard” marks you as a hater. You hate liberals more than you love freedom.

        • Cameraman

          You Libtards are the Haters and you have not even seen Real Hate, until you try to disarm Citizens…You People are Insane to think we”ll just lay down our Weapons..This is going to be a Very Un Civil War..Enjoy the Show Cowards…!!!

          • “This is going to be a very un-civil war” — IOW, you WANT this war so much that you will MAKE it happen, and you’ll find any way you can to blame me for what YOU do. Because personal responsibility.

        • godhatesfatties

          Hating you is justified.

  • Richard Medicus

    The federal government doesn’t own the property. At best the federal government can only lease the property from the individual states.
    Mike Vanderboegh has been using all of his skill for decades to try to make the state and federal governments aware that they are stirring up a hornets nest. If they choose not to heed his warnings they will wake a sleeping giant.

    • hofenbrau

      A sleeping giant? You mean 30 or so rag tag people out in the desert is considered a giant? I think they are probably considered a joke. 30 people or so can’t fight for more than 5 minutes against an organized military that has weapons that could disable a human is seconds. A sleeping giant is laughable. No one really gives two shits for some rag tag wannabe arm chair gun toting nut bags in the desert screaming over land use rights that 4 months ago they never even thought about. Even if Mike has been talking about land use rights he should better invest his time in spawning legislation to change the way things are which is what real citizens do. Only commie pussies go out and make their own laws and then demand that government somehow abide by them just because ether carry a gun. Get real, most of these guys are using this issue to raise money and get paid. Once that money dries up or people tune out and forget about them they will disband and go back to whence they came until some new issue pops up where they see dollar signs attached to it whereby they will run to the cause and make the same useless noise once again.

      • “Do what we say because we’re armed and dangerous” — there’s a word for that, it’s TYRANNY.

        • Cameraman

          The only think Dangerous about Libtards and Democrats are Trannys!!!

          • Trannys? How’d we get on LGBT issues?

    • Yes, the federal government owns that land, and has since the treaty that ended the Mexican War. Article IV of the Constitution clearly indicates that the federal government IS allowed to own property. I realize you are immune to facts, but Bundy and Vanderboegh are both crackpots.

      • no_tubes

        You really shouldn’t believe the Wikipedia interpretation of the Constitution. BTW, there is no authorization in said Constitution for the existence of BLM or any other federal agency. In fact, the 10th amendment would seem to forbid them.

        • BumpIt McCarthy

          Let’s rely on the Constitution itself, which ought to put this Tenther nonsense to rest. Of course, since Tenthers love to reject laws that they find inconvenient, using the Tenth amendment to rationalize being scofflaws and tax cheats might make sense — if only the Constitution did not specifically allocate power to Congress to tax the Tenther’s mooching behinds:
          :

          The Necessary and Proper Clause:

          “”The
          Congress shall have Power – To make all Laws which shall be necessary
          and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all
          other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United
          States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

          The Taxing and Spending Clause:

          “”The
          Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and
          Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and
          general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and
          Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

          The Commerce Clause:

          “”[The
          Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations,
          and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;

          ~~~~~~~~

          Thanks, ever so. You can check your Tricorn and your blunderbuss, and go find some other hobby where you can dress up in cool costumes.

          • no_tubes

            And that negates the 10th amendment how? By your reasoning, Congress can negate the entire BOR at will.

        • That “WikiPedia interpretation” just happens to be the one used by all three branches of the federal government. It also just happens to be what the Constitution actually says as opposed to what you wish it said. But thanks for revealing that you’re a “Tenther” like all those confederate slaveowners were.

          • no_tubes

            All three branches of the government are bought and paid for by the big banks and corporations. Ever hear of “Too
            Big To Jail”?

          • no_tubes

            Labelling and categorizing people is dangerous. That very thing has led to some pretty horrendous atrocities throughout history.

  • no_tubes

    Progressives worship the government more fervently than Muslims worship Allah, and revere armed jackbooted thugs and government workers the way Muslims revere Muhammad. Progressives might even be more irrational and maniacal, yet they won’t ever martyr themselves. They expect government employees to do the killing and dying. Progressivism is much like Islam. It is a religion and a legal system, and it demands unquestioning submission and point of the sword proselytization.

    • Psychological projection is a constant feature of right wing reactionary politics. You can’t imagine that people in the world would not feel the way you do, so you project your own mind on them. So here’s a small, cold dose of reality.

      I’ve spent lots of time with progressive activists, and if there’s one unifying feature about them it’s the utter lack of unity. Ten progressives have twenty ideas about how to do something. Someone always announces that Robert’s Rules are too authoritarian, so the entire room must be sounded on its opinions before they can proceed to a decision on whether to vote about what time to have lunch, and then what to have for lunch. There are no swordpoints, only points of order. And you will probably find that the room has ten different religions in it, too. It’s a polyglot, not quite Hitler’s guys discussing the Final Solution.

      Also: progressives have tremendous courage of conviction. They’re not afraid to confront the state, but they use non-violence. I’ve shared bread and beer with a man who chained himself to a metal pole to protest wars, I’ve watched people link arms and since “we shall not be moved” to protest Big Coal poisoning their communities, and never once did any of these people need a gun to confront the state. As far as I’m concerned, every one of them is a hundred times the patriot that Vanderboegh pretends to be, and has a thousand times his courage.

      • no_tubes

        There are plenty of statists (Liberals and Progressives are all statists, as are Neocons, lest I leave them out) calling for a full scale military strike against any and all who would disobey their beloved federal government. Progressives rarely confront the State, as they worship the State. Nonviolence is great, when it works. Then again, sometimes the citizenry need to bare their teeth a little.

        • Please list the liberals and progressives calling for “full scale military strikes” against those who disobey the federal government. Because I could say “the moon is made of green cheese,” but that doesn’t stop it being made of rock.

          Progressives confront the state ALL THE TIME. Maybe you heard of some Occupy protests a couple years ago?

          This Is Protest by rumisouth

          • BumpIt McCarthy

            But Osborne, conservatives and militiagoons are perfectly content to be “law-and-order” men when a certain party is not in charge…….

            They faded away after the Clinton presidency gave way to the disastrous fake cowboy presidency, and then started feeling all We The Peeplish in 2008 for some reason. Isn’t that odd?

          • Yes, totally inexplicable as long as we take them at their word that they aren’t racists.

          • no_tubes

            Actually, I think the militarization of police is incredibly dangerous, frightening, and probably unconstitutional. The ‘war on drugs’ is a war on freedom and a war against the people of the United States. The ‘war on terror’ is a lie and a sham.
            GW Bush lost all support from me when he signed the abominable “Patriot Act”, and O-bomb’a lost what tiny modicum of respect I had for him when he renewed it.
            Learn to think for yourselves, guys.

  • Oliver Pine

    Go start your war then you coward. Just keeps talking about it. If you didn’t know this 3% (you don’t have 3% but keep calling it that) is not a majority in the United States which happens to be a democracy. And to all the idiots that want to reply, you don’t actually have to be a liberal to see that this man is a traitor to our country. oh I’m sorry you don’t believe that. You only believe in the “your country” that a few hundred guys with guns and hardons support. You want to shove your vision down everyone’s throat, you might find that many of them are quite adept at “defending themselves”.

    • Cameraman

      Typical Alinsky Libtard Projection, you sorry ass Libs will Be weeping when the SHTF….Remember The Government IS the People….

      • Oliver Pine

        Well your a real stud there cameraman. You can start making it hit the fan any day now baby.

        • Cameraman

          Torey!!!!

          • Oliver Pine

            So lets get this straight. Militia type guys run around with guns constantly making cryptic threats about how they are ready to violently overthrow the government and bodies are going to start hitting the floor. But the second that someone points out that they have a voice as well, that they are perfectly capable of carrying a weapon and are not particularly afraid of a bunch of puffed out chests there has to be name calling and stupid childish threats.

            You really oughta look at these boards from another point of view sometime. For one thing it is not two sides. Militant traitors can be despised by all kinds of people, not just flaming commies. For example, I have never voted for a democrat in my life. Now I may start if only as a way to kind of send a message to republicans to stop going to far right crazy land.

            There are plenty of ways within the system to get your voice heard. If this was about the land in the west being owned by the federal government (which it is legally) then all proponents of change would have to do is simply get the word out about what is going on and people to vote in their favor.

            Either one of two things are happening. Either the message is being put out there in a way that normal voters aren’t accepting it, or those voters simply disagree with the position that the States should own this land. Both possibilities are very likely if you ask me. Nobody likes a bunch of violent thugs trying to force them to change their mind and many people feel that there is no good reason to transfer all of this land to state governments.

            But if you want violence, if you want civil war, bloodshed and death, if it is your dream to force your point of view on everyone else, then please get off the pot and stop talking out your rear. If you believe it go act. You guys are like the little child who holds his breath until he turns blue. Go out and start your war. Then one day they will have your burial on the news and I will change the channel to something interesting.

          • Cameraman

            You Just don”t get it Do You? The patriots and Militia groups are the Last one”s to Want War, most of us have been there and Done That..We want to be left Alone, and the People who are elected to Follow The Constitution Period..We are not going to stand By and Watch this Country turned into a Communist Run Free for all…I think the People forcing their views and Laws on US are in your Camp.We will never Disarm and if they TPTB don”t want Blood shed, then stop Pushing us into a Corner,they will get what they want if they keep it up, that Sir you can take to the Bank!!!

          • Oliver Pine

            If you don’t like the powers that be vote them out. Don’t whine to me. The Constitution provides a means for people to get what they want through voting. If you can’t get the votes on your side then you don’t get your way. That is actually Following The Constitution Period.

            What isn’t following the constitution is denying your fellow citizens their due vote by trying to overthrow the process. Your paranoid fantasies that this is some sort of communist country are just ridiculous. I don’t have a camp. I think for myself. I don’t sit around and jerk of to some fool like Vanderbough.

            People that are saying no my vote doesn’t count and I have to accept their view down the barrel of a gun piss me off, and I’m going to say what I think about it.

    • godhatesfatties

      We’ll enjoy slaughtering liberal faggots like you.

      • Hofenbrau

        So let me get this straight about the Patriot movement. Your argument is that instead of debating with those you disagree with: you would rather slaughter them and enjoy it while you do it? So that describes your patriot movement, happily slaughtering those you disagree with? Well that sums up your go to civil war narrative quite nicely. Good to know that its a club for people who enjoy slaughtering others they don’t like.

        • People who enjoy slaughtering others they don’t like. You know – FASCISTS.

      • Oliver Pine

        Try it boy

  • Barry Hirsh

    You statists really have no clue who you’re dealing with, do you?

    Fortunately, the strategists in the federal government do. Let’s hope they don’t do anything stupid.

    • I’m pretty sure that I’m dealing with a right wing nutjob right now. You’re so skeered of the big bad fedrul gummint that you find it necessary to try and make me feel skeered of you. But I ain’t skeered.

    • William A. Ferguson

      I have a very good idea who I am dealing with:

      I’m dealing with another one of those “git yer gubmit hands off my Medicare!” armchair warriors.